November 16th 2005

Unusual Thurible

I have just purchased a secondhand thurible and wondered if anyone had seen or handled a similar design. The shape is traditional - small dome; larger dome, bowl and foot - but, completely encircling the bowl is a pierced brass ring to which the three chains are attached. This ring is not attached to the bowl in any way but just fits snugly around it at the top. The lid is not connected to the chains but fits snugly into the top of the bowl. The lid also has no chain but is surmounted by a brass 'Canterbury' shape cross. The three chains, which have heavy links, meet on a stout brass ring about 1 1/2 inches in diameter. The thurible stands about 12 inches tall. Is this an unique design? Any comments greatly appreciated.

James Burgess

Our Lady, Henlow 

REPLIES

Gerald Wilson - 21/12/05

I haven't seen a design like this, and wonder how you raise the lid for replenishment when the thurible is in use. Assuming you just lift it by the cross, does this not get rather hot? Also, is there not a danger of the top coming loose, or is there some sort of clip?

We have the traditional design of thurible and I had been contemplating how to insulate the internal bowl from the brass outside, so that, when needs must with a novice thurifer, the MC could grasp the thurible underneath to position it correctly next to the boat. Any hints on how I could achieve such insulation would be gratefully received.

Gerald Wilson, Head Server, St Annes, St Annes-on-Sea, Lancs

David Froud - 22/12/05

In reply to Gerald Wilson's request, I would like to make the following suggestion:

1. Place two USED matchsticks inside the thurible below the inner bowl. and/or
2. Place 4 or 5 dead matchsticks around the thurible before placing the inner
bowl in place.

Even better insulation is achieved if the matchsticks are soaked in water
before use!

The hot charcoal in the bowls is then separated from the thurible by a cushion
of damp air.

David Froud. PG 10

Eddie Bestwick - 23/12/05

I wonder whether the thurible is an Orthodox one....could James please post up a photo of it on the Forum?

Eddie Bestwick, Stoney Stanton.

James Burgess - 6/1/06

6/2/06

From the photos, this thurible looks like one that is made for hanging rather than swinging. The bowl section could be for use as a 'static one'.. In a catalogue of Orthodox Church Supplies I have there are censers advertised which do not have chains but are for use in a chapel or in the home to stand before an icon corner. 'Pratt and Sons London' may not be the manufacturer .. they could be the supplier? Orthodox censers in the catalogue are much more ornate, though, and those with short chains have bells on the chains.

Fr. Graham Colby  - 3/4//06

It certainly is an unusual specimen! Could it possibly have been made for what used to be called the "non-ceremonial use of incense"? This would fit in with the previous contributor's observations, and it might cast some light on the "Pratt" provenance. I can't find any current reference to Thos. Pratt & Sons, but as I recall they used to have premises in one of those narrow streets running north from the lower end of the Strand. The choirmaster in my home parish used to insist on fitting out the choir there as he considered them soundly CofE, and untainted by popery! I believe they were general robemakers, not exclusively ecclesiastical, and I have no recollection of them ever making or supplying church "hardware", but it's quite possible that at some stage they did, and as I believe the "non-ceremonial use of incense" long enjoyed a certain respectability in some establishment circles maybe they were prepared to supply suitable equipment. I hardly think Pratt's would have been the stamping-ground of choice for most GSS members, but there must be somebody out there who remembers more about them than I do.

 Fr Graham Colby

Fr. Nicholas Haywood  - 5/4//06

I have a large collection of thurible and censers which are in the main ecclesiastical; ornatetely chased or repoussed, etc. I am also a master mason and know that Pratt & Son were manufacturers of both masonic and ecclesiatical vestments. The censer you have is a known design. As Fr Colby says; there was a great vogue especially during the fin de siecle of 19th-century for 'non-liturgical' use of incense and this fashion is now greater than ever in our society today, but he has a valid point. However, I suggest that the ornate ring with chains is A HOME-MADE ADDITION, (either created for the purpose or likely adapted from something else such as the 'fancier' portion of an old oil lamp fretted lip or similar). This is born out by virtue of the fact that I HAVE THIS CENSER as you show it MINUS RING AND CHAINS and, as has been already conjectured, it was designed for small sanctuary worship, (the 'other' version was fitted with a wooden handle held top & bottom by two brass lugs screwed into the lower bowl). The fact that it does not have the traditional, accepted hanging disk to which the three chains are normally fixed and a fourth chain, attached to the tip of the cross, passes through to a smaller finger ring for ease of charging, etc. Given that this was a known model until some 50yrs+ ago and that it came in two versions; table-standing & with handle I can tell you now that this particular version of the model was never meant to be suspended. You could easily rectify all of this by doing the following: 
1). solder three small brass rings to the bottom of the lid. 
2). Insert the fretted hoop into the lower section and pass the chains up through each soldered loop and re-attach to top ring. 
3). Drill small hole in tip of cross and attach small brass ring. Purchase a length of chain from a decent hardware store, (to the correct length), and attach it to ring through cross. 
4). Thread it onto the top-ring along with the other three and fill it with a small quantity of silica sand. Apart from the missing top-disk you'll have a stable thurible which can easilyt be charged and swung, but I would NOT trust it for a 360dg ''cartwheel' en route into the chancel!

I am happy to discuss any matters re: Thurible and old censers or items which anyone supposes to be such but are unsure. Happy Holidays one & all. 

+ Fr Nicolas Haywood. 

  - 15/5/06

Fr Nicholas's contribution is very enlightening. What happened to Pratt's? I have to confess that when I mentioned the "non-ceremonial" use of incense I hadn't thought of secular fin de siecle practice but was referring to what as a boy I gathered was done in a number of anglican cathedrals etc prior to Vatican II and eased ecumenical relations - incense was burned, but generally just carried in procession and/or hung up somewhere and presumably occasionally replenished - there was no incensing as we know it. The extraordinary copper(?) cauldron that is swung now at Salisbury is probably a successor of such practices. I believe I also saw a more conventional thurible used in the same "non-ceremonial" way at Wells some years ago - swung enthusiastically, but without any incensing as most of us probably know and practice it. Is this the way so many Anglican cathedrals that have adopted incense now use it? By yet another liturgical irony some RC churches have now adopted fixed braziers to burn incense. Since they obviously can't be swung, the celebrant just adds quantities of incense at the appropriate points in the liturgy. The practice is NOT, I gather, approved by Rome! I don't know if they are still doing it at the RC cathedral in Salford, where the brazier was in front of the altar, and the tabernacle behind it, veiled in white and yellow satin to look like a narrow 6' high tent. Were my thoughts of nearby Blackpool post hoc or propter hoc??
"O God, Turn back thy clock and give me yesterday"! 

  David Froud - 22/5/06

In reply to the question what happened to Thomas Pratt and son. They advertised in Crockford until 1973/74 editions and them disappeared. Presumably they
ceased trading at that time. I can find no evidence of them merging.

David Froud PG10