16/7/06

I worship in a church where we are having an interesting debate. 
For many years it has been the custom in our church to clear the altar immediately at the end of the service. Some believe it is correct to carry this out when the final hymn has been sung and after a  moment's quiet prayer; others believe that the clearing of the altar should be considered an integral part of the service and therefore the clearing should begin even though the final hymn might not have finished.

May I ask for guidelines on this?

JNW

REPLIES 

17/7/06

It would be helpful to know what you mean by clearing the altar. Is this clearing away the cruet and lavabo bowl or removing the Chalice(s) and ciborium?
In the earlier Prayer Book rites, the sacred elements were consumed and the ablutions took place during the last hymn or even after the blessing!

David Rumsby - 17/7/06

From my experience the Altar is cleared directly after the administration of communion, at my parish before the post communion prayer.

David G. Rumsby
Chapter of the Epiphany

Nic - 17/7/06

This is a matter for local practice, surely? In my previous parish, the altar was cleared by the servers immediately the service was over: at my present church the servers clear the altar, reserve any remaining hosts etc. while the President is talking to our "Sunday School" but before the blessing.

Nic

Peter Davies - 17/7/06

I don't think it really matters when the clearing is done but for choice it is better seen to be done and therefore completed as part of the service.

Peter Davies, 
Gloucester 

17/7/06

Whilst clearing the altar is an important issue, it should not begin until the final hymn has ended, vestry prayers have been said and then it would be appropriate for servers to begin clearing the altar, having first extinguished the candles. If the jobs are shared, then it should not take more than ten minutes to tidy everything away and to ensure that the altar is ready for its next use. 

17/7/06

Clearing the altar is not part of the service. The service ends only when the final hymn has been sung. The congregation deserves to be able to say their final prayers in peace without servers bustling around clearing up. Personally I would leave a few minutes after the hymn ends and then enter the sanctuary to clear up. Servers too could use this space to say their own prayers, perhaps kneeling at the altar rail.

Tony Ralli

17/7/06

Both seem to be ok, the custom of the church must be considered

Paul - 17/7/06

I will let others answer the main question here...However, I can say, that as a young altar Server, many years ago here in Australia.....ONE very important duty and done after the congregation had left, and with great reverence, was to scour and check the carpets and floor of the Sanctuary...especially the Communion Rails...Looking for "Consecrated Hosts" that may have been dropped, accidentally, while giving Communion.....any found were either consumed with reverence or placed in the Aumbrey/Tabernacle....... 

Paul. Australia.

Michael Smith - 17/7/06

Hello JNW !

I have practised altar clearing after silent prayer following last hymn. This seems to me appropriate and dignifies the sacramental conclusion.

I hope this helps.

Regards and best wishes

Michael V.A.Smith 
Chapter of St Luke 
Chelveston St John's Church

 17/7/06

Dear Sir,

I’ve asked around my serving team (collective service at the altar in excess of 170 years) and other members of local chapters (also very experienced servers) before on this issue and there seems to be a consensus of opinion that 
(a) cleaning of the altar should not take place whilst the choir are in their stalls 
However….
(b) …if the choir have recessed or are recessing down the church (either singing or not )
(c) ....and the individuals involved in the altar clearing have said their own final prayers 
(d) ….then as long as the clearing of the altar is done with reverence then either it should be seen as integral to the liturgy of the service and therefore can be carried out with reverence whilst the choir are in recession 
(e) ….or taking the alternate view point that the Mass has finished for those said individuals then the clearing should be able to take place as soon as they can do so with decorum and reverence.

Yours in Christ

Peter - 17/7/06

Hi,
At St Mary's Bideford in North Devon, we always clear the Altar either during the Notices or at the beginning of the final Hymn.

Peter

Peter Hillyar-Russ - 17/7/06

It depends on what one means by “clearing”. If one means removing the sacred vessels, the corporal, etc. (and possibly a book and stand), then the sensible time is shortly after communion. This used to be one of the signs of a “true” catholic church – one could be asked in the early 60’s “Do you gab and tarp?”

To GAB was to have the “Gloria at beginning” and to TARP was to “take ablutions right place”. The Western rite always had the Gloria after the kyries, and taken the ablutions immediately after communion was over, before the blessing. The Book of Common Prayer (1662) put the gloria at the end, and directed:- And if any of the Bread and Wine remain unconsecrated, the curate shall have it to his own use: but if any remain of that which was consecrated, it shall not be carried out of the Church, but the Priest and such other of the communicants as he shall then call unto him, shall, immediately after the Blessing, reverently eat and drink the same. 

The “advanced” chuches always gabbed and tarped, but in those days (circa 1960) it was an issue. In my own church these things raised debates in the PCC when they were introduced. (We always tarped, but only gabbed when Series 2 came in and allowed it). The only thing nowadays which is similar is perhaps the place where the “Peace” is given – Common Worship perversely placing this after the offertory, against the Western Rite tradition of doing this after the Agnus dei.

The actual removal of things from the altar, such as the candles, cross, altar clothes, etc. certainly ought not, I think, take place until the service is clearly over. The obvious exception to this rule is on Holy Thursday, where the stripping of the altars at the end of the service is an integral part of the (Western Rite) liturgy.

From:- Peter Hillyar-Russ

 18/7/06

Once the blessing has been said the Mass has ended therefore the servers should start to clear the altar as soon as they have said their own final prayer irrespective of what the choir are doing

 18/7/06

Not quite right. The Mass ends with the dismissal - Ite Missa est or the Mass is over go in Peace.
Historically this dismissal was not given during Lent or Advent as it was replaced by Benedicamus Domino - Let us Bless the Lord. This was then followed by prayers which then concluded with Go the Mass is ended. It has been said
that this subtle change was made to retain those who dashed out at the dismissal and did not want to help clear up.

Roger Emery - 18/7/06

I have seen the Altar cleared during the last Hymn, and find it distracting to say the least. Perhaps those wishing this to be done would also go for Setting up The Altar, and changing frontals etc, and lighting candles during the Entrance Hymn.. Heaven forbid either practise.

Roger Emery.
St Nicolas Pevensey East Sussex.

4/8/06

As the person who initiated discussion on this topic, I am most grateful for all the replies. Varied and fascinating as they are, I must assume that the Guild does not, per se, issue a ‘rule’ on what is correct procedure. Local practice would seem to be the arbiter. May I now broaden the discussion? If the priest-in-charge has clearly told his server(s) at what point in the service he wishes the altar to be cleared, and the server(s) ignores this request to follow instead the practice he (the server) feels is most appropriate, what action should be taken? In other words, should it be the wishes of the priest or the server that prevail?

JNW

11/8/06

I instigated the discussion on Altar Clearing and learnt much from the useful, if conflicting, replies. I entered a follow up message last week. It was registered as having been submitted on 4 August but so far…no show. Perhaps it was too controversial and has been censored? Surely not!! I wanted to broaden the discussion and discover what the Guild’s views are on members who insist on clearing the altar at a different point in the service to that which the priest-in-charge prefers. What should a server do if his lifetime habit or conscience or sincerely held views on the interpretation of the liturgy are not in accordance with the priest’s wishes? 

JNW 

Robert Vague - 13/8/06

As a life member of the Guild, having served for over 50 years, my opinion is that you follow local practice and always obey the wishes of the parish priest. There was once an article in the Server magazine regarding servers and part of it read as follows " the necessary acts of the server should not distract the observer". So if people are still at prayer, then we wait until finished before moving around in a way that may distract or disturb them from their devotions.

Robert Vague
St Stephens
Prenton

Colin Cox - 13/8/06

I was surprised to read the latest question on what to do if the server’s views differ from the president. In my church we have a number of retired priests and they all do things differently. I believe it is my job to serve each as they wish. My views don’t come into it as my role is to serve not to dictate. When I am asked for my view, and I often am I give it, but at the end of the day I do not make the decision. This is not false humility but a practical reality.
Colin Cox

13/8/06

I would respectfully suggest that the Server should reflect on that the Priest is the President at the Eucharist and represents Christ at the Altar and the server should assist the Priest in that ministry at all times, including before and after, in a dignified manner with devotion and without drawing attention to him(her)self. This may seem difficult where there is a tradition of informality being fostered. ...but the Priest is responsible for the conduct of the service. 
One can, unknowingly, be selfish clinging to procedures with which one is comfortable and familiar...whereas many Clergy are trying to make the services more accessible to those (95%+ of our parishioners) who are unfamiliar and uncomfortable with Church.
Clearly, if the Priest is of a different tradition than the particular Church and the approach is not appropriate to that tradition, the Server should draw those concerns to the Churchwardens to discuss with the Priest and try to resolve the issue.

C Barber - 13/8/06

 Dear JNW.

You and your colleagues are SERVERS . Your job is to assist the priest not to control and direct them. It is the job of the Sacristan or Head Server to discuss procedures with the Priest in Charge but the priests decision is final. Your recourse is to the PCC and eventually the Bishop, but remember the Parish Priest actually appoints you and can dispense with your services if you insist in going against his wishes.

Yours in Christ.

C A Barber (Sacristan St Luke's Burton)

14/8/06

 I have always been given to understand that you go with the wishes of the priest.

John Linge - 16/8/06

I would have thought that by definition, a server serves. Therefore if the priest (“in charge”, rector, vicar, or even lowly curate) wants the altar cleared at a certain point, then that is when it should be cleared. We really have to ask ourselves if it is worth worrying about such things. Perhaps our energies could be better spent in some other way of furthering the Kingdom?

Best wishes,

John Linge. (St. Michael the Archangel Chapter).